{Edited 1/8/09—since I typed it up late at night I added a few more things here and made a few things more clear…}
My new laptop made it in today. I wasn’t really thinking it would reach me until Monday at the earliest. Pretty cool. I am really liking it.
This is part of my new desire for complete expression here.
I know many exs follow this blog, their friends and business associates. And not just my own exs.
The whole exs thing is one reason I moderated myself so much in the past (other than my family)—and this is one thing I am trying hard to let go of, the hiding, the moderation—trying to be more open and … unveiled…unhidden…
So—here we go…
There are so many times in life when I, and maybe you too, look at someone and think, how incredibly ignorant do you have to be not to understand, not to see, the Truth? There are people that really do need to be beaten with a stick to get anything through to them, so thick and so hard are their heads. No. I am not advocating actual physical violence against anyone—this is all metaphorically speaking. Although, to every rule, there is an exception.
This may seem out of place to some, but it isn’t, in the grand scheme: I used to hold the name MorningStar. I took that name for a particular reason, at a particular time. Am I the Devil? No. Not even. Do I always win? Not always, but often enough. I took the name MorningStar, which I no longer use, because I am, if nothing else, the Devil’s advocate. Lucifer is a beautiful charmer. Demons appear in the guise of angels all the time. I am here to show you both sides of the issues. I hold no attachment to either side, in most cases. I am merely here to give you both sides, the Devil’s advocate. In this case, on this day, I know I am right. I know I am right to win.
R’s ex-girlfriend gave me the greatest gift this week. R admitted to me he is working through a great deal of guilt. Not one bit of it has to do with her in any way. He knows he did everything, above and beyond, to salvage that relationship. When only one person works on a relationship, it is bound to fail, no matter how hard someone tries. His guilt is all about the way he treated me when we first got together. He feels he has a great deal to make up to me.
For the record, I don’t think he does.
The man just bought me a house. Hello. He bought me a house until we have enough combined income to buy the property we want, with the 5+ acres of land, and the huge floor plan, without cashing in every retirement plan we have between us.
He is more sure of our relationship lasting, in less than a year, than he ever was of his relationship w that ex in the entire 5, 6 years they were dating.
R’s ex, called X4 for this example, is “blaming” me for their break-up. R and I both think it is just brilliantly hysterical. Talk about living in your own world.
Sixteen months ago, roughly, I moved back to the St Louis area. That’s September 08. I signed the papers for the house in the Western Woods in August. Went back to WV to pack and to prepare until we moved in early Sept.
It was a year prior to that, as in 2007, that everyone else saw that R and X4 were beginning to really drift apart. X4 herself admits that in that year she felt herself pulling away from R, but never knew what to do, and never bothered to mention it to him, never thought it was important enough to tell him anything, for an entire year. By the time she admitted she felt this way to him, the relationship was pretty much over anyway.
It was roughly July (08), into August, that R grew absolutely certain that he would never marry X4. She was in the middle of trying to buy yet another house. She hadn’t exactly bought one before…but she had been in the process of doing so…more than once from what I have been told. Due to her “psychotic” behavior (quotes not from R, actually) during the home buying process, R, who had been contemplating buying a ring (simply because that had to be the next logical progressive step, not because he had the emotional attachment to her—paraphrase from R, yes), threw all of that out the window—due to X4’s own behavior. I got to read a lot of those emails around that time. Psycho is an understatement. Loss of control of every minute detail threw this girl (she’s over 30, yes—but has the emotional maturity of a much younger girl, say 12, 15, maybe) into a spastic apoplectic fit.
I got to read her emails, things that she had written. I also got to read what other people said about those emails, in the email strings. Not to her. Oh no. Never to her. But behind her back…that’s a different story all together…that’s what I got to read.
I wasn’t there. That had nothing to do with me. That wasn’t even the beginning of the end. It was closer to just being The End. Period.
R and I have been friends for ten years now. I was there through his divorce. Through every girlfriend he’s had since his divorce. The joke is I know every woman he’s ever slept with, except the one in high school. It’s a joke—but it is also true. I’ve been here all along. Whether in the flesh, in the same city, the same state, or across the country, in another time zone completely. I have always been in contact w R.
I was still living in his house when he started “seeing” X4. He wasn’t sure, for weeks, they were actually dating, or even doing anything more than just hanging out. If that. And even then, he was curious as to what she meant when she said that by dealing w R she no longer had to deal w the other guy she was seeing at the time when she and R started. R always wanted to talk to that guy, to get a better explanation of what had been happening in his point of view. You can’t talk to X4—as it was explained to me in the beginning, she has a lot of issues. In her defense, she has a couple redeeming qualities. Beautiful blue eyes. And a bodacious rack. There will be more about that later. But apparently after these few things…there is a great deal left to be desired.
R has said at the beginning of the relationship it was interesting and terrific. All along he has maintained that the first six to twelve months were the only decent months of the relationship. Then, things slowly began to fall apart, no matter what he did to fix things, or to help X4. After about 12 months, sex dwindled to nearly nothing, and with no imagination at all, per her requirements. Once, every 4-6 weeks was all the action he got. And sex was not a mutual experience. It was all about getting her off, and once she was done he could do whatever he needed to do for him. Not her helping or participating—he could do for him. The problem was, she was too uncomfortable with sexuality to figure out what did it for her, so it took a great deal of work to do anything. Normally, the only sex they had was after she’d been drinking. After her inhibitions dropped a little. Even then, for R, it wasn’t that great by any means.
Those breasts? He wasn’t allowed to touch them, until he figured out how to touch them the right way. Five, six years, and she still has no idea how anyone should touch her in a way she likes or that doesn’t make her uncomfortable in any way. So, he didn’t touch them.
Sex with her was so bad, for so long. It didn’t stop her from teasing him either. His big gripe, other than her needing to be drunk to put out because that’s the only time she ever actually felt frisky, was that she told him she liked to have sex in the mornings. The man tried for months. He never got sex in the morning after she said that. Not once. He’s lucky nothing fell off due to the unending torment.
Would you stay in a relationship where you only had sex on your partner’s terms, as in her pleasure is first and foremost and your pleasure doesn’t really matter to anyone other than you, where you only have sex once every 4-6 weeks (for 4, 5 years, mind you), and she had to be drinking in order to put out? Statistics show that the average normal couple in the US has sex 1-2 times per week. R has never asked for more than that. He really is just your normal average guy. But X4 made him feel like a pubescent sex fiend who wanted it constantly. He just wanted it regularly…and without a hassle…and without feeling so creepy and cruddy because she had to be drunk in order to perform.
Now, if other things were good, I can say I’d stay. I’d be miserable sexually, but if other things were good, I could manage. In fact, I have done it. I’ve also stayed where the sex was so bad I quit putting out—but the difference w me is the 1st thing I say is you need to go elsewhere for sex. And I don’t hold a grudge about that. Nothing was going decently in his relationship with X4…and she could offer no assistance in anyway. Could not tell him what was wrong, not w her, not w them—but boy could she heap on the complaints and ridicule about him.
Keep in mind, a year before I even thought of moving back to the St Louis area, she admitted they were already drifting apart, several times she has admitted this to him, after being pushed and prodded and nagged by R for any kind of crumb or nugget or something so that they could have a place to start to work from to solve their issues. His family, who very rarely saw her, all saw that she was pulling away, from him and from them. Her friends all saw it. Yes, R has spoken to many of their mutual friends. Even people who don’t spend much time around X4 saw that things had changed between them. Her so-called best friend said frequently that he saw what she was doing to destroy the relationship w R, but knew there was no way to talk to her, because she simply wouldn’t hear anything.
A YEAR BEFORE I MOVED BACK TO ST LOUIS.
A year before I was ever anywhere near their relationship in any physical way.
A year before she could focus on me as a reason for all their problems.
After that first year of them dating, R became rather disillusioned w X4. She began to gain weight, and not in a good way. She stopped taking care of herself. She stopped trying to dress decently. She stopped trying—she had a man—why bother trying to look good in order to get a man.
She never wanted to hear about what was going on with R. He was not allowed to call her just to chat. He was not allowed to talk about his day. She didn’t want to hear about his stuff. She said it didn’t have anything to do with her, so she wasn’t interested. She actually told him his life, his work, his stuff bored her. She talked about her day. She talked about unimportant things. She never talked about anything real. Nothing personal. She never wanted to hear about anything about him, anything personal about him. She basically gossiped…never let him in…never tried to reveal herself…never tried to do anything…other than have some guy on her arm to say hey look I am not a total loser because I have a man.
When I had my accident last year and R helped me, she always said she had no problems with him helping me. He asked her, a lot. She didn’t understand why he would bother to help me in any way—not just me, but anyone—her friends know if something goes wrong in their lives, no matter how small, this is not the woman to call. She was invited along all the time w R and me, but she never accepted. We did our best to include her, but she could not be bothered, because we weren’t doing anything that interested her. Because being around me made her feel uncomfortable. We even planned dinner outings just with/for her, but she was never interested in going. R helped us a couple hours, one day a week. She didn’t want anything to do with him, unless he was w me, especially not when they were out together, themselves, without me around. They went out in public, to parties, to social events, he would do everything to wait on her, to make her comfortable, to make her happy. She would not speak to him, not look at him, not sit by him, unless she absolutely had to do so. That had been her pattern all throughout the relationship. It had nothing to do w me.
The entire relationship, from beginning to end, all R heard from everyone else was, are you sure you two are a couple?
She said it was because she’s not demonstrative. That’s not it. I know plenty of non-demonstrative people, couples where both parties are non-demonstrative. You can still see and still tell that they are a couple. There’s no connection in X4’s brain. She cannot actually genuinely connect with anyone outside of herself, because she won’t allow herself to do so.
December, 2008. R had gone on a skiing trip, without X4. This is where R decided he’d had enough. September 08, he and I had had a conversation about the fact he would be moving in w her at some point, and how he knew it wasn’t going to last, but there was no telling how long it would take for her to realize things weren’t working. The original discussion revolved around me renting his house—which was a discussion we’d had before I moved from WV, but she couldn’t actually commit to anything, so we let it go. R was willing to let me rent his house, because he knew 1 I’d take care of his house and 2 if anything happened he could move back into his own house and there would be no problem, not of any sort—not to mention we know already we work well together when living together. But, due to her inability to make a decision and her inability to commit, I found a different house…and R was always very glad I had done that rather than waiting for her to make a decision about him moving in w her or anything else…he was always grateful he hadn’t moved in w her.
Back to the ski trip. She had been invited. She declined. She said it was fine for him to go without her. She had no problem with him going. He’s been gone a week. She never tried to call him the entire week he was gone. He tried to call her, once, but she didn’t want to talk to him—she was too busy w friends. This is not unusual. Normal communication between them was no emails (other than forwards to their mutual groups) and no phone calls, except when they were due some place. He had to initiate contact—she would not bother, unless she had to have something, or had to do something. I have never heard of a functional couple who had so little contact. Phone calls had to be quick and to the point. Emails had to be even shorter and more to the point—or she wouldn’t bother to read them. And she’d tell him they bored her and that’s why she wouldn’t read them. He called her as he was driving back from the ski trip after picking up his car, trying to figure out where his dogs where (his house or hers), what her expectations were…BUT she was in the middle of a game with friends and it was her turn so she didn’t want to talk to him. The call lasted two, maybe three minutes.
She hasn’t seen nor spoken to her boyfriend in over a week. She is too busy to talk to him because it’s her turn during a game with friends. Friends who would have understood if they had to wait 5 or 10 minutes for her to talk to him, even if he hadn’t been gone for a week. Such was her way—it was all about her and what she found important to her. R was not high on her priority list.
So, since she hadn’t said one way or another about anything, and his dogs were safe at her place, he went home, to his house—after driving back from CO all day and everything—after skiing for a week. All he wanted was to throw some stuff in the laundry and get it washing—take a hot shower and then crash in his own bed.
He called ME after he tried to talk to her. He griped and yelled darn near the whole way home. More than an hour. I was there, as a friend, to talk to, someone who would listen, who would hear him, who would give him the space to vent and to make himself heard and understood. Such was never her way.
Now, he should have been home around 10p or so. That’s one reason he called her. He’d have been to her house sooner than his own, if she had said anything even close to anything hinting that she might want him there, he would have gone there. But she didn’t. She didn’t get home from her friends’ until well after 1a—if not later. I don’t remember the correct time now. Tell me, your boyfriend of 5 years or so is coming home after being gone a week. You’ve barely spoken. He was gone for Christmas and New Years. Do you really sit around and play games and ignore the fact he’s coming back? Or do you finish your turn real quick—or just say, hey, I have to go-- and start heading out so that you can meet him, even if you assume incorrectly that he’s heading straight to your house? Not this woman. Her own needs always came before his, and she wanted to play with her friends. Her friends would have understood if she’d left closer to 10p.
He got into BIG trouble the next day—when she figured out he went back to his own house and not hers. Which was the next day—she didn’t call that night (or rather morning) when she finally made it back to her house. She never did understand why he was so upset. She was with her friends. She never understood why she should have left, or why she should have said one way or the other which house he was to go back to. She didn’t see any problem w her not getting home until 1, 2a. He was the one in the wrong, because he hadn’t gone straight to her house the way she assumed he would. She thought he should have known better.
R had long offered to go to couples counseling, long long before I ever got back. The complete lack of communication, for which X4 is more than notorious in every circle, had been bearing down on R for a very long time. Now, I know for sure R has gone to training for effective communication. Not only in ROTC, but in UFT as well. UFT teaches NEUTRAL communication. X4 has no clue what that means. One thing she is also not good at is honest communication. She isn’t good at admitting anything to herself, much less R. When he started offering to go to counseling w her, she refused.
Neutral means we talk without allowing emotions to overwhelm—we don’t allow ourselves to be nasty—we don’t be petty—we talk about the actual issues in an adult and logical manner so that the issues can be more readily resolved.
When the ex and I were having issues, I went to counseling on my own. We went to counseling together. It doesn’t do a darn bit of good if both parties are not honest and aren’t actually trying to fix things. I did everything I could to fix things. The real problem lay in the fact that he was lying to me and to everyone else—and I trusted him and believed him. He told me I was the problem and I believed.
This is R’s problem. I’ve known him through his divorce and other break-ups. X4 broke him emotionally and spiritually. He could no longer trust himself. She was and is a complete passive-aggressive menace. She never wanted to take actual control or plan things—she never wanted to be the one who made the actual decisions because then if things went wrong everyone else would blame her—she always wanted him to do all the planning and scheduling—and when he did, she did nothing but complain bitterly about how terrible a job he’d done, about how she would have done it better doing it this way or that way, about how rotten things were because of him. She destroyed his self-confidence. She took complete advantage of his giving open nature. The man is a boy scout—his job is to help the old lady across the street—or to offer a helping hand to whomever is in need—or to hand a kid a napkin in a restaurant even if he doesn’t know the kid. That is just how he is and just how he has always been.
This woman took complete advantage of him. At all times. Every time I personally saw them interact. Her actions were so grossly aggressive and arrogant—she could not have cared less about this man. He was her waiter, her butler, her slave. That’s all she wanted.
When you are at your significant other’s house, and your partner is making dinner, do you help? Stand in the kitchen or at least nearby so that you can speak to him? Anything? Or do you sit on the couch, as far from him as possible, sitting where you can’t see him and he can’t really see you, ignoring him, randomly flipping channels, not talking? Even when I am not helping, which is rare, I sit there in the kitchen w him and talk. I listen to R about his day. I listen about his job. I listen about bowling and skiing and Mardi Gras and jazz fest and movies and music and any number of things that R wants to talk about….I have always done this. Even when we were only friends.
He will still call me on the way to or from some place and just thank me for taking his call. She was so emotionally manipulative and abusive he was afraid to call her and piss her off. He wasn’t allowed to call her just to chat. Because she was so uninterested in anything that was not all about her.
He tells me thank you, I mean w that sincere look and the crack in his voice, for just listening about his day, or for sitting on the counter in the kitchen while he does whatever (like make incredible beef jerky—the turkey jerky did not turn out so good as jerky—but as bullion it’s astounding)—because for so many years no one would give a darn about what was going on in his day or in his life where it clearly had nothing to do with her.
He tells me thank you when I am polite, when I say please or thank you, because apparently she has no concept of common decent manners or actual gratitude—or if she does she is incapable of showing it in a manner in which any other living creature understands what she is trying to get across.
He is stunned—this man who has known me for so long and who has known who and what I am across the board the entire time—that I am so positive—even though—for all my own personal gloominess—he has always known this about me.
He is stunned—even though it has always happened to us, even before either of us was divorced from our significant others, that complete strangers will see us out in public and think we are a couple. He says she is like a cloud of negativity, a nuclear cloud that chokes out anything good in any situation. And R is the master of making the best of things in cruddy situations.
The comments he has been getting from people who know him, like neighbors, about how much happier he seems these days, how much more relaxed and calm he is. I love the comments about how it’s about time he and I are finally together, how we obviously deserve one another, how good we are together.
She could never articulate—in 5, 6 years mind you, not just that last year—could never speak up—never tell him how she felt or why she felt.
How is this a way to live your life? How is this a good thing for anyone involved?
He loves women in lingerie. He actually has rather conservative tastes at times…so he wasn’t asking her to dress up like a stripper or anything, He would buy thongs, negligees. If she even wore them once ever, it was a miracle. Most of it, 99.9999999% of it she put away and he never even saw it again, much less on her.
He’d go to his family’s for the weekend. He’d ask her to feed the dogs, let them out, keep an eye on them. She’d agree. He would have no clue when or even if the dogs were let out—so he could gauge when he would need to leave KC in order to be at home in time for the dogs. There were no phone calls. No notes. No emails. No hint of anything. He’d cut his visit short to rush home, finding dogs with empty food bowls, not sure if she’d been by or not, if they’d just eaten everything up after she left, how long it had been since they’d been let out…not a thing. She couldn’t figure out why her lack of communication meant anything. She took care of the dogs. He didn’t need to know when, or where she was, or what her schedule was, or anything like that.
That was the real issue—he didn’t need to know what she was doing, where she was going, to whom she spoke, with whom she hung out, what was going on in her life. But she needed to know every single detail of his whereabouts at all times—even if she didn’t care about the why or anything else.
She didn’t tell him about massive pains that she suffered. I can’t remember…kidney stones or something. Something that every book, every internet source, every nurse, doctor and nurse practitioner in the world, other than the one that X4 sat in front of, said can be controlled w diet—and after R figured out that she was in pain he tracked her reaction and could tell her when she’d have an attack based upon the food she was eating—although she told him food had nothing at all to do with it—in a very arrogant and nasty way—as if he were brain damaged for even thinking it—despite his cognizant examples of her actions and the results thereof. He had no idea about her pain. Had no clue if she would go to a dr, or if she had been to a dr. When she finally made it in to a dr, R was not told the time nor date. Even though by that point they were more than having major issues. He offered to drive her in, pick her up, take care of her afterwards. It took forever and came from a source other than her own mouth during conversation when he got the scant details about what was going on. Then again—she didn’t tell anyone else much either. Not her friends. Her mother was coming into town and no one knew about it. Most of her friends and co-workers had no idea she was having surgery.
This is X4. Bear it all—make people read your mind about everything—and hold a big grudge when they don’t get it. And make them feel like crud when they don’t get it. That’s X4 all over.
Her family. When R’s family came to town, X4 would have things to do, unless they were going to do something she wanted to do, which was unusual. Even if her something was sit w friends and watch tv. She was generally dismissive and uninvolved w his family. W her family, that man had to be front and center, no matter what, even if it meant abandoning his own family. Which for me is shocking—after what he did for the ex-wife—how he broke w his family for her. It took him some time to get over that—especially after everything that went down w her in the end, in the divorce. But, he was willing to do anything to fix things, to make things work w her. Ex wife and X4.
A normal scenario for X4 is the dog situation. The 3rd dog was brought into the household. R worked w the dog, trained the dog, the whole nine. The dog lived at his house, destroyed his house, since the dog had been so abused previously he had some major issues. R took care of the dog. The dog was registered to R, the chip in him was registered to R, the vet’s records listed R as owner…though they never actually spoke about it, it was assumed the dog was R’s, R’s responsibility, R’s, R’s, R’s.
Here’s the interesting thing. X4 swore many times to R that she broke up w him in April. Even though she never actually said those words, until a later time. She never acted as if they’d broken up—she kept arranging “talks”, kept showing up at his house, kept inviting him to things, kept going places w him, as if nothing were wrong. He officially broke up w her in July. I kept telling him—she didn’t think it was really over. I saw the man after he broke up w her. He called me. He came to see me. There was no way she could have mistaken his intention—unless she was deaf, dumb and blind—and even then, I’d be hard pressed to give her credit for misinterpretation. HOWEVER, he, being the decent gentleman that he is, let her continue to see the 3rd dog at his house for the next couple weeks, let her take the dogs to the dog park. Whatever made her comfortable with things.
He was waiting for the other shoe to drop w her. He had expected her to pitch a fit, start demanding her stuff back from his house, make him take all his stuff from her house. Nothing. Then, one Sunday, he and I went out. He purposely spent Sundays away from his house, to give her space. He was hoping she’d start taking her stuff back to her house with her, if she didn’t want to do it all at once. I kept telling him—she didn’t think it was over. It was during the time when he had been laid off and was still job searching. I kept telling him—and I know I am not the only one who did—that she thought once he got a job everything would be all fine and hunky dory again.
That Sunday, she apparently wanted to talk to him—she was all into having these talks that went absolutely nowhere—even though she never told him that she wanted to talk that day—so she waited at his house for him to return. When he didn’t, she hacked into his email account. She read every email FROM ME—and PRINTED them out—printed reams and reams of stuff, from what she told him. She never said exactly what she’d read, whether it was all from me or not, but from what she said it was a bit obvious that she hadn’t read anyone else’s emails—since they all said exactly what I said. She never showed R what she printed off. She never told him what she printed off. She showed up with a list of all her stuff and all the dog’s stuff—she yelled and screamed and demanded answers. She really had no clue they had broken up prior to her hacking his email account –despite her protests to the contrary about April. She demanded her house key and garage door opener back.
She did not bring a single thing of his. Did not return his house key to him. In the end, he would get only a few things back. The only things that really mattered to him. Things from his mother. Things that X4 went out of her way to nearly destroy when returning it to him—knowing how very important that was to him, because it was from his mother.
So, yes, she is right, on the one hand, in a way. I was seeing R before he officially broke up w her. BUT—I am not the reason they broke up—far from it. BUT—if it weren’t for me, he’d have broken up w her in January 09. He didn’t want to do that before the Feb ski trip though—a trip she made utterly miserable, for everyone. He didn’t want everyone to be miserable that trip. Then it was the gall bladder surgery –he couldn’t break up w her when she was going through surgery. He couldn’t break up w her before her birthday in March. He didn’t want to be a complete prick. BUT—they haven’t had a real relationship in well over a year. I can tell you how often they had sex after the whole Dec debacle. It doesn’t take all the fingers on one hand—not even a crippled lumberjack’s hand…
That Feb ski trip. X4 forgot to tell R she thought this trip was a time to rebuild their relationship and reignite their passion. She was demanding and demeaning, the entire trip. Moreso than usual. Her nickname for ski trips was the Queen of Everything—because that’s how she always acted—as if she were the Queen of everything—and she acted like the Queen of Hearts—not just while skiing—but all the time.
Here’s an example of her passive aggressive b*thcery. She has always hated to get a massage w R—he talks through the whole thing. He’s gregarious –he always has been—he always will be. She threw a fit that trip because she wanted to go get a couple’s massage w R and he didn’t want to. 1 he didn’t need a massage and 2 he wanted to spend his money on some new ski gear and 3 she had spent way too much time in the past dogging him out about talking and ruining things while she was getting her massage and demanding he get his in another room. By Feb he was so fed up with her, he wasn’t about to kowtow to her as much as he had in the past, even though he was trying to be a decent guy so as not to make the rest of the ski party feel miserable due to their circumstances. She couldn’t care less about anyone else. She only cared about herself. She was absolutely furious at his refusal. She could not understand why he wouldn’t want to do something with her, despite the patterns from trips past, from years past.
That’s her pattern. If it’s for her, it’s good. If it’s about her, it’s good. Anything else, if she can get attention somehow and make things about her in any way—it’s good—otherwise, she’s busy. She is unable to think about anyone else or their feelings. I have watched her do this, first hand. On several occasions. And before we left for MD as well.
Now, keep in mind, X4 maintains she broke up w R in APRIL—which is when R and I started to get more serious.
After he broke up w her in July, there was a float trip they were both scheduled to go on w friends. He tactfully told a few people he and X4 had broken up—he’d been telling certain people ever since he broke up w her. She told no one, not that he could tell, until after she hacked his email account and printed out all sorts of emails. X4 is not a demonstrative person, as we mentioned above. She goes on this trip, after R tried to bow out if it would make things easier on her and she said it was ok if he went—she had all his camping gear and he needed to get it back from her—not that she allowed him to have any of it back during that trip—so long as he didn’t try to hook up w anyone or throw his single status in his face. Her rules.
No. She refused to return his camping gear. Not at the end of the trip. She said she would bring it over to his house. Demanded she bring it back to his house rather than just give it to him there either before or after the float. Not that he got everything back either. That way they could have another one of their infamous ‘talks’—read that as screaming argument on her part most of the time.
On the float trip she threw her butt in everyone’s face (not literally—but then again, I saw pictures—it wasn’t far from literally). She threw herself all over men, even married men. She fawned. She flirted. The complete opposite of her normal personality for the 5, 6 years prior. She shocked many people that trip—and could have cared less. She looked like—trailer trash on too much beer was the comment (not by R). She let R be a gentleman, put sunscreen on her back, fetch and carry for her—and then darn near gave a guy a lap dance or two w her behavior. Making sure R was watching the entire time. He thought it was sick—funny—but sick.
The best part was the one guy she so heavily flirted w the whole trip completely dogged her out as he was leaving. She went running across to him , making a spectacle of herself in front of everyone, to give the guy a hug—and he shook her hand. R nearly choked. It was so beautiful.
Her big thing, since she hacked R’s email, is that she wants him to admit what he did to ruin the relationship by cheating on her. He did NOT cheat on her. He did not ruin the relationship. There is nothing at all for him to admit.
No matter how hard she tries. No matter how hard she twists things. He did not cheat. I had nothing to do w the demise of the relationship.
She ruined the relationship. She refused couples counseling when first he offered, when he had a good job with good insurance that would cover it. After he’d already given up and fought to get through to her, after he’d been laid off, she wanted to go to couple’s counseling, but he wouldn’t go—because he wasn’t paying for it when he knew it wasn’t going to help. It was a last ditch effort—something she needed him to say no to so that she could run off and say I tried—I did everything I could—and he’s the one who refused. Poor poor pitiful little me.
Too bad the only people who buy her story are dupes and people who are nowhere near St Louis.
This woman told him at one point that they were having couple’s issues. He asked what he could do to help fix things. She said ‘nothing, because it (was) a couple’s issue’. When he asked what they could do together to fix things, she said she didn’t know, she wasn’t sure. She couldn’t actually articulate what the issues in their relationships actually were. Not at any point in the relationship. You cannot fix what you don’t know is wrong.
The issues in the relationship were: X4 is unable to communicate. X4 is unwilling to communicate. X4 only wants to blame any and everyone else for her issues. She wants the fairy tale life, but she doesn’t want to do the work involved.
She would rather degrade R and tell him she had to lower her standards in order to deal with him (after 5 years together) rather than tell him how she lowered her standards or what he could do to improve things. All she could do was insult and belittle. There was never anything constructive that she could offer.
Her friends, she can’t understand why they would be upset when she cuts them out of her life for any length of time. She does not have the capacity to understand that turning her back and ignoring people may hurt their feelings. People don’t just go sit in the closet and wait for her to get back to them in a few weeks or months or whenever it is convenient for her. They have feelings—and she is all too good at crushing them and then being upset when they don’t take her back w open arms when she is finally ready to be a friend.
Point in fact, she has pissed off a huge score of friends. She’s dating (more on this in a sec)—apparently she’s been dating for awhile. She hasn’t told her so-called best friend that she is dating. One person she swears she doesn’t even like got to meet the guy for all of 5 mins at a party once. She cannot understand why any of her friends might be upset by this—unrelated to the whole ski trip coming up (more in a sec)…it is completely beyond her to comprehend.
This is the real and actual issue that destroyed her relationship w R. Her—her actions—her inactions. Her lies to herself.
In her new house, she had pictures of R and her up. After Jan, Feb, some time in there, she took them down and put them away. Her excuse was it caused her pain to look at them, w all the issues they were having. R offered to do whatever he could to help. She said she’d put them back up, said she’d meant to put them back up. She never did. She never even bothered to try in any way to bring them back out anywhere. She was already done with him then; she just didn’t have the ability to tell him it was really over.
R’s mother died of ovarian cancer. He bought and gave out many of the teal rubber bracelets. He gave one to X4. She stuck it somewhere. Never wore it. When his bracelet broke because she was yanking on it, she never said a word. Knowing how very important this thing is to him, she didn’t offer to get him a new one. Didn’t bother to offer to give him the one he’d given her. She simply could not have cared less.
She didn’t notice when he finally did get a new teal bracelet. She never realized I bought the bracelet. I bought R a whole bunch. I gave them out to lots of people I bought so many. I bought them not because he and I were dating—I bought them because he was my friend and it meant so much to him. His own girlfriend could not even do anything even remotely close to this? She couldn’t be bothered at all? Knowing how very much this silly little bracelet means to him—how it represents his mother—connects him yet to his mother?
It didn’t matter to her—because it wasn’t about her. It wasn’t for her. She didn’t get anything out of it.
She bought this house, claiming it was for ‘them’, making sure there was a big yard for the dogs. All R ever asked for was a dog door for the dogs. X4 said she’d get one. He did all the research. He found the best deal for what he wanted and what the dogs needed. She hemmed and hawed—she moved into her house before or about the same time I moved into mine—but she could never get around to spending the money –just a couple hundred dollars—to buy a dog door.
She made more money than he did. But she always expected him to pay for everything. She wanted a handyman. A driver. A butler. You don’t share intimate time, intimate thoughts, with the help. To X4, R was merely the help.
She would point out that half her closet was empty, but she never asked him to move in with her. When he would try to bring it up, she would avoid the conversation.
She would ‘clean’ his house, which she told him constantly she hated (dog fur everywhere)—she ‘organized’ his basement for him. Which means she took everything off the shelves and arranged things in the middle of the floor—like all the aerosol cans in one place. Whether they were cleaners, sealants, or whatever—he had had them organized by use—which worked for him. She took everything down off the shelves and left it on the floor. Months later she would explain she’d been trying to help him prepare things to move into her house. After they were having issues—she tells him this. At the time she did it, when he asked her why she did it, she said she was just cleaning things up.
She’d ‘clean’ his house. Organize everything her way, in complete disregard for his systems, and then whatever she didn’t like she’d stick in a box to let him deal with later.
She’s wash the dogs in the bathtub in the second bathroom. She never even bothered to rinse the bathtub out afterwards. Think…3 dogs…a CHOW, a German shepherd mix, and a Plotts hound …talk about having a real furry mess on your hands. But it was R’s house-so why bother trying to take care of it at all?
She is in the middle of telling him how she wants to fix things, how she wants to spend time w him. She gets symphony tickets—something he has always told her he wanted to do and she has never shown the slightest interest in—she asks if he wants to go—he does not immediately answer—so she waits not even a whole day and then asks someone else to go with her—this is her way of spending more time w her boyfriend and of repairing their relationship.
Doesn’t that sound like the way to fix things to you? Not to me either. But she swore that’s the right way to fix everything. To hold something out she knows he has always wanted—and when he doesn’t do exactly what she wants him to do exactly when and how she wants him to do it—snatch it away and go out with another man.
This past Tuesday, six months after he broke up with her, eight months after she broke up with him—just so we are clear here—R agreed to meet her after bowling league to talk in the little restaurant thing at the bowling alley, at her behest. She sent him an ever so polite email requesting a meeting while she knew he still in CO skiing. R knew exactly what it was about as soon as he read it—and he knew who instigated it as well.
Can we say he was awfully amused? Would you not be entertained after 6 mos of not dealing w someone on a relationship level, where the other one couldn’t even be bothered to act as if she has a brain in her head and be a decent person in social circumstances, that person says oh hey, I’d like to sit down and talk to you about the ski trip that’s coming up?
X4 has a new boy toy—and she’s bringing him skiing. Her first question was about me though—was he taking me skiing? Not this time, sweetheart. When we go—we’re going to get our own condo. So, next year, hold on to your bunny tail. R said she dropped my name every chance she got. She has some massive inadequacy issues where I am concerned. Talk about FUNNY!
Now, X4 has never liked me. I lived w R. I gave birth in his house. He baby-sat my kid while I was in massage school. This was ALL before he started seeing her. She has proven to be ultra uber jealous of any female in his life—and no one can ever say for sure what sort of relationship R and I have had in the past. Since I lived w him, since I had stuff in storage in his basement while I was in WV, she made assumptions.
This is a woman who tried so hard to eradicate every trace of every other female in his past. I have to laugh. There is not one room in his house you can walk into where you can’t see my influence, something I gave him, something I did for him. Stuff in his basement still. And not just MY stuff either. K’s stuff—the bag of hammers—her stuff is still in the basement too. It was just assumed the stuff was mine, apparently. X4 literally lived in my presence, saturated with me, every time she was in R’s house. And had no idea. The irony is incredible these days.
This is a woman who, when R’s friend from states away came w her husband and small child to visit, X4 she purposely sat in between R and his friend so they couldn’t talk. At dinner and otherwise. This from the woman who never wanted to sit next to R in a social situation when others were around, this while they were dating. And on good terms.
Tell me how I am the reason the relationship failed, just one more time, please. I just do not see it. Really.
It wouldn’t matter if R and I decided to wait ten years before we started to see each other—X4 would still say it was I who broke up the relationship. She still swears he cheated on her—apparently just like every other guy she’s ever dated. Given her proclivities, it’s no wonder she thinks everyone cheats on her.
From what R has been told by her, she has a problem breaking up w people. She tends to just let things drift away until something better comes along…and usually the guy finds someone first and that’s her calling it cheating. Honey, read Dan Savage, or Dr Ruth, or Dr Joyce Brothers or something. If you are not putting out—and the rest of the relationship is –less than fulfilling—expect the other person to go somewhere else. Even a Saint would be hard pressed not to go elsewhere. There is only so much masturbation and cold showers can do for any person. Especially when you keep saying I’ll do it in the mornings, or I’ll do it here, or I’ll do it there—and you never do.
You want to know the weirdest thank you I get from R? He does not have to exhaust himself fighting every step of the way to get me off—I actually enjoy sex—I actually enjoy his touch—I actually think that sex is about two people and that both people should enjoy what’s going on. He’s never been w anyone who actually cared so much that he enjoys himself.
Don’t give me a sexually abused or exploited childhood precludes being able to have a normal healthy sex life in adulthood. I am living proof otherwise. It took a great deal of work, a great deal of tragedy, and even more work, but I dealt with my issues. I’ve never seen a man explain in such boring technical terms what he had to do to a woman to try to get her off—just try—and how he was only allowed to do certain things, in very certain ways—or else he was banned—like the not allowed to touch her tits thing—which gets better—because he took her at her word and eventually she started to miss his attempts to stimulate her breasts, so she griped him out for not trying—and then accused him of all sorts of things and denied she ever told him not to touch her—he just has to do it the right way—and to date, she still doesn’t know what that means.
This is a woman, I love this part, that always said that if couples in the social group spilt up, then they should deal with things like adults, like M and S have done. They may not like each other personally, but they behave tolerably well towards one another around others. X4 cannot manage to do even that where R is concerned. She has continually shown her frenetic bitter self at any and every gathering she and R attend.
Strange thing is—none of her friends are surprised … they are surprised it has gone on for this long though.
Friends have said and are saying she’s showing her true and normal side—the normal psychotic side of her off-kilter personality. That from friends. Does that not stop her for even a moment? To realize how she appears to her own friends? Not this one.
I love the night that R went to see a friend’s dad play in a band. R got there before X4. He left before X4. X4 griped out and grilled the entire crew after he left about who knew R would be there. The friend’s girlfriend, yes, that R, knew R was going to be there—and totally said not one single word to X4—which sums up what sort of ‘friend’ X4 hangs her faith on.
In social situations, X4 currently goes out of her way to be rude and belligerent to R. Their mutual friends have been making comments about how nasty she is behaving, about totally nutso she is acting, and how they don’t really like having her around when she is in b*tch mode.
Let’s go back. She is taking her boy toy to CO w her—thinking everyone will bend over backwards and give her whatever she wants, because of course the world revolves around X4, rabid Queen that she is. No one is planning on giving up a bed for her and her new beau. No one. And that is only the beginning of the issues that everyone else has started to bring up after her revelation about the guy friend.
Now, think about it. X4 cannot be nice. Nor can she be polite. Not even for the sake of others. This woman who is mortally concerned about what others think about her. She is taking her new guy skiing, in close quarters, w R, who would so love to talk to her other exs about her behavior. Now, I can guarantee R will be R—and he will be genuine and polite and decent at all times, to him and to her. BUT—if he has a few minutes to talk to the guy, imagine the things he can tell the guy to look out for….things that her own friends are more than willing at this point to also corner the guy and tell him…would you want that? X4 needs her head examined.
It is so obvious she has to take anyone, just anyone, on this trip, just to have someone to throw in R’s face. She could care less about the furor she’s caused w everyone else. Selfish and arrogant and all too sure she is the only one in the right. Someone needs to be beaten w the sensibility stick there, and hard.
The talk between them was entertaining, to say the least. After 6 or 8 months, depending on how you want to look at it, she is still so caught up in R, just admit T broke us up—admit she’s been after you this whole time. On top of trying to rub it in about a new boyfriend. She is such a farce. She looks like such an absolute idiot—in front of everyone…not just R and me.
Hello X4-- R and I are planning to buy a house together within the next year. We’re talking about getting married and having children together, within the next year. We are going to be renting out our respective houses as we delve deeper into real estate investment. Together. Among other things.
Do you really think all he does is sit and wonder what poor idiot is going to be so sorry and so stupid enough to fall for your initial charm and have to endure your insipid b/s? It’s been at least half a year since the relationship ended.
He’s gotten over you. He’s moved on. He found a real partner. He’s found more than a soul mate. He’s found genuine Happiness, lasting happiness. And yes, it is with me. Even if it weren’t with me—he knew all along after that first year it would never be with you. You never let him in. You have no one to blame but yourself.
If you haven’t gotten over it yet, you really do need to seek immediate psychiatric help. You need to stop and take stock of your life, because it is obviously s*it. Especially considering you are obsessing over a man that you openly admitted you haven’t really wanted for over a year before you two broke up. That’s almost two years at this point. You are obsessed w a man you yourself have said you haven’t really wanted for nearly the past two years. There is something wrong w that—seriously wrong.
Admit it. It is not R you are obsessing about. It’s me. You cannot quantify me. I have always been here, right here, in the house, in your face, always his friend. Maybe even the mother of his child. You can’t prove it because you didn’t know him then – and no one else can tell you because they don’t know either.
You don’t know what to think about me. I don’t care about money and I spend it freely on the people I love. I don’t work a soul-sucking 9-5 job. I home school my kids. I work as a Psychic (that’s the only word I will accept that you will comprehend where it comes to my work-though it is not an accurate portrayal of my work). I am extremely openly affectionate. I ask for help when I need it. I refuse to force myself to do things I don’t want to do simply because that’s the way it should be—no—I have no plans to buy myself a car. I am planning to buy R an SUV, but that doesn’t mean I can drive it. I am open. I help people. I loan people money. I give people stuff when they are in need. When things are done, I let them go. I do not fit into your little world, into your strange range of little square boxes in which you put everyone and everything in your world. When I first met you I took 1 look at you and saw right through you—damaged. I saw you—the real you. You are Damaged. I felt for R—but it was his choice. I knew it wouldn’t last forever then.
Not this past April, when X4 broke up with him, but the April prior to that, on April 1, 2007, R pranked me for April’s Fool’s Day. He told me he’d asked X4 to marry him and she’d said yes. I made the friendly happy for you noises, out of respect for him—and then he bust out dying laughing (this was all via email)—did I really think he would do something that incredibly stupid? With X4’s commitment issues, did I really think that if he had the balls to ask her that she’d accept?
That was 2007. I was in WV. I hadn’t been in MO since 2006. I emailed R all the time – I always did—I always do—we’ve always been in contact. Except when I needed to protect him from certain things. And vice versa. We emailed. We IM-ed. We were always friends. Up until April 09, we were just friends, friends helping friends. Then we started to talk about having more together. After July, there was no stopping us. From April to July, all we did was talk about the best way for R to help you get over and get through your psychosis. Because we both felt and we both still feel that you need some serious help—and I was willing to wait to make sure he did more than everything he could to help you, to make sure he did everything he could to get through to you.
You threw everything in his face, every single argument. I was the one he called after every ‘discussion’, every argument, every social outing. I heard every detail. I understand far more than anyone else that you have been trying to force to hear your side of things just how very….unbalanced and in need of some serious help that you are.
I went through classes w R—there is nothing wrong w his communication skills. Especially if you’ve been dating him for 5-6 years. Yes, he does have his own style. Yes, sometimes he does comes across somewhat—wishy washy—or uncertain—but if you know the man, you understand what he is trying to say.
Example? X4—where do you want me to sleep?
R—it doesn’t matter to me. Sleep where you are comfortable.
X4—that doesn’t tell me anything—where do you want me to sleep?
I am making this more potable for the paying public here. You two are in the middle of relationship ending talks. You’re in his house. What you are asking is ‘can I sleep w you tonight’ or ‘are you ok w me sleeping in the same bed as you despite our recent disagreements’—what you said was –‘where do you want me to sleep?’
After 5-6 years of time with this man, what you should know when he says ‘sleep where you are comfortable, it doesn’t matter to me’ is that your comfort comes first to him and he doesn’t want to force you to do anything you don’t want to do—so if you want to sleep with him that works, but if you are more comfortable sleeping in one of the other bedrooms, then he will completely understand and not hold it against you.
Which he did explain to you. Communication is a 2 way street. You have to be able to hear, to listen, to discern…you lack that ability. You need to hear things a certain way and if you don’t hear it that way, you don’t hear it--nothing else matters to you and you hear whatever else your mind provides for you.
You cannot articulate your needs—he will not read your mind. He always puts the other person first—which had you been paying attention for the past 5-6 yrs, you would know. This affects every relationship you have—work, friends, romantic—your inability to think outside of your own selfish self.
You are so caught up in your little need to be right, your need to be the center of attention, you aren’t paying attention to your friends’ reactions to your recent behavior.
I know men have cheated on you before. I still stand by the fact that your own low sex drive and your own inability to speak up when you know things are done leads to you thinking the guy is cheating more than anything else. You pretty much leave them no other choice but to find succor elsewhere. You have to accept your own culpability at this point.
However, I want to do what I do. I have no remorse about anything where R is concerned. I know he and I are going to be together for a very long time. We’re getting married. We’re having a family. We’re happy now—and we will continue to be happy. For the rest of our lives.
I have to thank you. Thank you for being you. For holding my place in his life for me until he and I were ready for one another—if nothing else….
If you weren’t so screwed up and if R had not tried so bloody hard to help you, he and I would not have –gone through so much all at once, would not have had such long involved conversations about things other than you, about the way we want to live and the relationship we want to have….so, without your complete denial of your own issues, without your living in your own world and your need to blame everyone other than yourself for everything that goes wrong, R and I might not be this close…not to negate the 10 years we’ve had as friends—but there are things that friends don’t discuss as in-depth as lovers do.
If it weren’t for your actions and your words being complete 180 from one another—complete and direct opposites…
If it weren’t for your sheer obstinacy and arrogance, R would never have talked to me about the friends helping friends issue in the first place. Prior to that, I only got minor details, hints, innuendos. After that deal, I got the full enchilada about his trying to deal with you, your insecurities, your complacency, your unwillingness to do anything. Prior to that, I wouldn’t have even thought of dating R, much less of living w him, marrying him, having his children.
When I can say, honestly, that my exs don’t look so bad in comparison to you, that says A Great Deal. And here I am—saying it—because is it true.
You are great fun though. I’d tell you to go away and leave us alone, but we are all too entertained by your antics and depravity at this point.
I wish you would get help you need. I hope you find some happiness, some sort of peace. I don’t think you will, but that won’t stop me from lighting a candle for you. We both wish you well.
